Thousands of Baptisms Invalidated

[Geo]

Apparently, the words one utters during a baptism can matter a lot.

Here's the story.

The priest used the phrase "We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

He was supposed to say, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

Christ does the baptism, and not "the community" which means that the priest, approved by God (in theory), speaks on behalf of Christ. The community does not.

Apparently, the important part of this ceremony is not the meaning, intent, or power of God and Christ, but rather in the specific phrase a mortal man uses.

This raises a number of questions:

1) If a priest is the literal vessel for the wishes of Christ and God, then this seems to fly in the face of Godly power as hundreds of murderers, rapists, child rapists, thieves, and more have operated as though they were acting on behalf of God, and he did nothing to stop it.

If priests are the vessels that can convey God's wishes, it seems to me that God either endorses these actions, or doesn't care if someone else lies about speaking on God's behalf. This would be contradicted by a lot of statements from the Bible if he didn't care about taking his name in vain, false prophets, and several other similar behaviors.

In any case, it does mean that being "ordained" lacks any real value, as one cannot know which priests God approves of or disapproves of, unless one also takes the stance that all the previously mentioned miscreants are also approved by God.

2) Why would God care more about whether or not a specific word was unintentionally misspoken, rather than the intent of the ceremony?

3) Is God vain? Is he bored? Is he simply cruel? If not, what are the motives that a Good, just and fair God would have for ignoring the baptism of thousands of true believers, including many who died without being baptized properly, and thus are now going straight to Hell?

4) If God is all powerful and innocents are being harmed through no fault of their own (nor, honestly, of the priest in question from what I can see), then what kind of God allows thousands to die and burn in Hell for eternity rather than correct this issue or bring attention to it right away?

I just find this type of behavior in the modern world really interesting. The complete absence of critical thought on display in religion, and the number of people that seem to be okay with that, is alarming.

I'd really like to hear some sound reasoning for these types of positions.

[Kitsune9tails]

Here's my perspective (I am not an expert):

God knows this priest's intent, and the intent of those who were baptized.

It's all good. God is god, not a genie. Doing the ceremony wrong might displease God, which is between the priest and God. It is a sin, if God decides it is.

Assuming those baptized are worthy of the benefits of baptism (which as a Baptist protestant, only gets you into the Church and has no bearing on your relationship with God, except that it is a demonstration of your bearing, not a magic spell), then they are all fine.

Some, including religious scholars, may disagree. That's fine with me.

[Kitsune9tails]

1) If a priest is the literal vessel for the wishes of Christ and God, then this seems to fly in the face of Godly power as hundreds murderers, rapist, child rapists, thieves, and more. If priests are the vessels that can convey God's wishes, it seems to me that God either endorses these actions, or doesn't care if someone else lies about speaking in their behalf. In any case, it does mean that being "ordained" lacks any real value, as one cannot know which priests God approves of or disapproves of, unless one also takes the stance that all the previously mentioned miscreants are also approved by God.

This is true: I have been serviced by numerous licensed professionals in various walks of life over the past 60 years that were incompetent, unqualified, or simply having a bad day despite certification. A certificate is merely a piece of paper that increases the odds that you got somebody good.

2) Why would God care more about whether or not a specific word was unintentionally misspoken, rather than the intent of the ceremony?

He doesn't.

3) Is God vain? Is he bored? Is he simply cruel? If not, what are the motives that a Good, just and fair God would have for ignoring the baptism of thousands of true believers, including many who died without being baptized properly, and thus are now going straight to Hell?

He wouldn't, if his goodness and fairness maps to our own.

4) If God is all powerful and innocents are being harmed through no fault of their own (nor, honestly, of the priest in question from what I can see), then what kind of God allows thousands to die and burn in Hell for eternity rather than correct this issue or bring attention to it right away?

He doesn't.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails

This is true: I have been serviced by numerous licensed professionals in various walks of life over the past 60 years that were incompetent, unqualified, or simply having a bad day despite certification. A certificate is merely a piece of paper that increases the odds that you got somebody good.

Then why does God let people impersonate his speaking vessels (priests) and allow others to become victims of them? Why does God (apparently) punish those who are not actually serviced by one of his "real" vessels (priests)?

What if a priest performs a marriage ceremony incorrectly? Does that mean that they're no longer married in the eyes of God, and thus have sinned repeatedly?

Why does God punish the victims of fake priests instead of protecting the victims from those who pretend to speak from the mouth of God?

How come there's no clear way to tell which priests are the "real" ones that are actually speaking for God?

Doesn't this mean we can't really trust any of them?

He doesn't.

Your view seems to be at odds with many churches. Good luck reconciling that.

He wouldn't, if his goodness and fairness maps to our own.

Then according to many, if not most, churches and clergy, his goodness and fairness do not appear to map to our own.

He doesn't.

Again, you seem to be at odds with your own religion. Please get on the same page.